#847 Refugees at the border (Immigration)

Today we take a look at how our arguments over immigration policy is causing emotional flare ups around what should be an uncomplicated issue of a rich, developed nation offering help to refugees fleeing violence in their countries of origin.

Show Notes

Ch. 1: Opening Theme: A Fond Farewell - From a Basement On the Hill

Ch. 2: Act 1: Top 6 Ways Corporations Are Bringing The Battlefield Home...And Making A Killing - @BraveNewFound - Air Date: 01-06-14

Ch. 3: Song 1: Comes and Goes (In Waves) - Three Flights from Alto Nido

Ch. 4: Act 2: Obama Tackles Immigration Reform, Republicans Disagree - @theyoungturks - Air Date: 07-07-14

Ch. 5: Song 2: Off a Cliff - Gestalt

Ch. 6: Act 3: Behind the border crisis - @onthemedia - Air Date: 7-11-14

Ch. 7: Song 3: Rescue Jah Children - Police & Thieves (Remastered)

Ch. 8: Act 4: This Is Humane?: Lawmakers Push for "HUMANE" Act to Potentially Send Kids to Die - @majorityfm - Air Date: 07-15-14

Ch. 9: Song 4: Shame - Emotionalism (Bonus Track Version)

Ch. 10: Act 5: Sarah Palin: Impeach Obama for Following George W. Bush's Law - @davidpakmanshow - Air Date: 07-10-14

Ch. 11: Song 5: The Smallest Piece - Beasts of the Southern Wild (Music from the Motion Picture)

Ch. 12: Act 6: Brit Hume Bursts The Fox News Bubble Over The National Guard At The Border - Media Matters Minute (@mmfa) - Air Date: 07-14-14

Ch. 13: Song 6: The Smallest Piece - Beasts of the Southern Wild (Music from the Motion Picture)

Ch. 14: Act 7: They're Not "Illegal" Immigrants, They're Refugees - @majorityfm - Air Date: 07-15-14

Ch. 15: Song 7: Escape - Light (Bonus Track Version)

Ch. 16: Act 8: Don't Mention Why The Kids Are On Our Borders - @FAIRmediawatch - Air Date 7-11-14

Ch. 17: Song 8: Keepsake - Peace Between Nations

Ch. 18: Act 9: When Children Are the Enemy - Mumia Abu-Jamal - Air Date: 7-15-14

Ch. 19: Song 9: Cruel World - African Elephants

Ch. 20: Act 10: This Is What Refugee Immigrants Crossing the U.S. Border Are Fleeing - @majorityfm - Air Date: 07-17-14

Ch. 21: Song 10: Heartless - The Best of Aldo Nova

Ch. 22: Act 11: Support @SavetheChildren’s Border Crisis Effort - Best of the Left Activism

Ch. 23: Song 11: Right to Complain - Backatown (Bonus Track Version)

Ch. 24: Act 12: Jose Antonio Vargas, Proud American - @Truthdig - Air Date 7-18-14

Ch. 25: Song 12: Proud to Be an American - Side Street Ramblers - Masterworks Series Volume 2

Ch. 26: Act 13: Fox News Scoffs At Heart-Wrenching 911 Calls Of Immigrants Dying - @theyoungturks - Air Date: 07-24-14


Ch. 21: Torn apart by looking at both sides - Nathan from Boca Raton, FL

Ch. 22: Why I support Palestine - Sarah from Boston

Voicemail Music: Loud Pipes - Classics

Ch. 23: Final comments on David Pakman's response to the last episode's final comments

Closing Music: Here We Are - Everyone's in Everyone

Take Action:

TEXT “AID” to Save the Children at 20222 to donate $10

Read and watch stories from those crossing the boarder at: Save the Children’s “U.S. Border Crisis” page.

Learn exactly where your support is going at: U.S. Border Crisis: 'Save the Children’ Meeting Immediate Needs of Children

Sources/further reading:

Read and watch stories from those crossing the boarder at: Save the Children’s “U.S. Border Crisis” page.

"Border children need immediate cooperation" via Save the Children at USA Today

"To Address Honduran Refugee Crisis at the Border, US Should Stop Financing Repression in Honduras” by Laura Raymond at Truthout

"This Is What an Overcrowded Holding Center for Migrant Children Looks Like” by Steven Hsieh at The Nation


Written by BOTL social media/activism director Katie Klabusich

Produced by Jay! Tomlinson

Thanks for listening!

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Showing 1 reaction

  • John G.
    commented 2014-08-03 00:45:03 -0400
    Thank you Jay,

    Thank you for having this open dialogue about David on the podcast. I have been conflicted on David Pakman for the length of this current conflict in Gaza, and I only became aware of his show because of you. It got so bad that I had to stop listening to his show, which is not something I would normally do. I’m very interested in listening to all sides of an issue when I don’t agree, because that’s the only way for anyone to make progress on anything. I’m a progressive. I like progress.

    But I also am confronted on a daily basis with this current conflict in Gaza, with images of dead children, which a civilian death toll at 80% and this can clearly not be a mistake or misses or collateral damage. These simply must be targeted killing of civilians. That was clear early on, but especially now after the beach attack and the UN shelter attack. And I hope you grab either of Jimmy Dore’s excellent rants on this from this week (either on TYT or The Jimmy Dore Show) when you cover this topic again, which I hope you will do very soon. I find your calm, rational, balanced, even handed, intelligent, fair coverage of every issue to be so calming for me. I see so many dead children every day online, and I get a little crazy, and then I listen to David Pakman and he’s framing most of his coverage of it as though all the problem lies with Hamas, and I just can’t do it. There is no context that matters to me that justifies this. There is nothing that justifies killing 80% civilians, even if every single one of the really was a human shield placed in front of a rocket depot.

    David Pakman is a smart person, a good person. I can see that. The issues with Israel are very complex, I see that. The associations between the history of the Jewish people across the world and the Israeli State make it even more complex. If people had been killed or kicked out of every country they’ve ever been in, and finally through great struggle and after surviving near total genocide finally got a state of their own, it would be very difficult not to always want to side with them on issue that could even remotely, even theoretically pose a threat to that state. But this is not defense. Even with Hamas having as part of their charter the idea that they would like to wipe out Israel, it’s not defense, because they can’t do it. They have no chance at all of doing it. Israel is the 4th largest military on Earth, backed by the largest military power the Earth has ever known. But even if they were in dire, existential danger, it would not justify killing 80% civilians. That is just murder. It takes a very complex issue, and makes this part of it easy. That is murder and that is simply wrong, fundamentally immoral.

    David is trying to reconcile these things by saying, and you actually chose the best example of this in that clip you chose for the show, in the clearest language he can, what he thinks about this. He was being very explicit in that clip because of some the conversations he had been having that week, to condemn Israel for their actions, but he didn’t condemn them because they were wrong, but because it was tactically ineffective to kill so many civilians. He thought it wasn’t a good idea for ending the conflict or for promoting peace, and that’s just not good enough for me. When you deliberately kill children who can’t possibly be part of your conflict, because they’re children, you are not just being tactically ineffective, your committing an outrageous moral offense, a war crime. I think that because of his background, he just cannot see the way his bias is dragging him toward a conclusion that his progressive nature would not let him come to on any other issue with any other country. Hamas is a terrible group. I do not support them at all, but they are merely the obvious and foregone conclusion of a people living under siege and occupation. In any prison, there will be gangs formed around tough guys who do violence, and the weaker people will flock to one or the other for protection. Gaza is a prison. This is true outside of prisons too. The Israelis support Netanyahu’s war at over 80%, because people who are made afraid will back a strong man. It’s why the US was able to invade Iraq, a country that posed no threat and had not attacked, because that fear makes us all irrational. Netanyahu, Hamas, George W. Bush, and many many others in history will always use this fear to achieve greater power. It should be condemned, not as tactically unwise and inefficient, but fundamentally wrong and immoral in China/Tibet, in US/Iraq, in ISIS’s campaigns through Syria and Iraq, and obviously in Israel/Palestine too.

    Thank you for giving me a place to get this all out. I love you Jay. I love what you do. Your work has changed my life, and don’t really have the words to thank you for that.
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