Air Date 6/21/2024
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: [00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of the award winning Best of the Left podcast. The European elections could have been worse, but they weren't great. Shifting politics among mainstream parties is legitimising far-right politics at the same time as people's concerns over immigration is being reflected in a willingness to vote for far-right parties. Sources providing our top takes today include Democracy Now!, Unf*cking the Republic, The Brian Lehrer Show, Beyond Business, The Muckrake Political Podcast, Al Jazeera, and Pod Save the World. Then in the additional deeper dive half of the show, there will be more on the EU structure and election results, immigration and the culture war, and the playbook and messaging of the far-right.
Clear Shift Toward the Far Right Anti-Immigrant Nationalists Gain Ground Across Europe - Democracy Now! - Air Date 6-11-24
AMY GOODMAN: In Europe, residents of 27 countries went to the polls this weekend for the European Union’s parliamentary elections. With nearly 400 million eligible voters, the EU elections are among the world’s biggest democratic [00:01:00] polls, which are held every five years. This year’s results ended in a strong showing for the far-right across much of the European Union, while many liberals and Green parties stumbled. Most of the far-right gains were concentrated in countries that elect a large number of seats to the EU Parliament: France, Italy, and Germany.
Incoming lawmakers can veto and shape laws, though they cannot introduce them. They also set the EU’s budget and approve the selection of the European Commission president, a powerful role currently held by Ursula von der Leyen of the center-right European People’s Party. And despite the far-right surge across much of the EU, the European People’s Party was the biggest single winner on Sunday, remaining the strongest group in the European Parliament. On Monday, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen spoke in Berlin about the vote.
URSULA VON DER LEYEN: [translated] This election on European [00:02:00] soil had two basic messages. Firstly, there is still a majority in favor of a strong Europe in the center of the political spectrum. In other words, the center has held. But it is also true that the extremes on the left and on the right have gained support. And that is why this result is also associated with a great responsibility for the parties in the center.
AMY GOODMAN: The election results triggered a political earthquake in France, where Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally party won 30% of the vote, more than double President Emmanuel Macron’s Renaissance party. In a surprise move, President Macron responded by dissolving the French Parliament and calling for snap legislative elections in France, which will be held in three weeks.
In Belgium, the prime minister resigned after his party suffered heavy losses.
In Germany, Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s [00:03:00] Social Democratic Party suffered a crushing defeat, coming in third behind the far-right Alternative for Germany, which scored its best results in history with 16% of the vote.
In Italy, Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni’s far-right Brothers of Italy party surged to first place in Italy, getting nearly 30% of the vote.
In Austria, the far-right Freedom Party was also forecast to finish first.
For more, we go to London to speak with Mehreen Khan. She’s the economics editor at The Times in London and a former Brussels and EU correspondent for the Financial Times.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Mehreen. It’s great to have you with us. Can you just talk, start off with the overall trend in Europe, and then specifically talk about what’s happened in France?
MEHREEN KHAN: Sure. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Amy. I’m a big fan.
So, as you’ve already mentioned, there have been two major consequences from these elections. One is [00:04:00] a move, a drift towards the far-right in the competition of the European Parliament, and then this very unexpected political and potentially constitutional crisis in France.
To start off with the European landscape, I think it’s worth stressing to the listeners and to the audience that having huge surges of one party is quite difficult in the European Parliament, because you have 27 elections, which are often run on domestic agendas in 27 different countries, which are all at different points in their political cycle. But what we can say is that the two biggest member states of the European Union, in France and Germany, there has been a clear shift towards the right. And that’s the far-right in terms of the AfD, a party which used to be based around Eurosceptic and anti-Euro ideals but has moved definitively towards anti-migration, anti-Islam, sort of classic populist, nativist culture wars in Germany. And similarly, the same has happened among Marine Le Pen with her Front National party, now known as the Rassemblement National. So, they’ve had a [00:05:00] rebranding in recent years to make them seem, I think, a bit more political palatable to French voters.
I think, on the European scale, immediately nothing will change. And that’s because it’s very hard in aggregate to get huge swings towards one part of the political spectrum. There is a sort of received wisdom that the center has held, and that’s because the three main parties who made the coalition that supported Ursula von der Leyen in 2019 are still likely to have a majority. But I think looking at the aggregate, actually, ignores what’s going on at a slightly deeper level and, I think, more substantive level, where the center-right parties, the Christian democrat parties of Europe, led by the likes of the CDU in Germany, have definitely moved towards the space that was occupied by the far-right. There’s been a clear rightward drift on climate policies, so backlash against green activism, a clear move towards stronger anti-immigration policies and a rhetoric around culture wars, around Christianity, around Israel, around foreign policy, the role of European [00:06:00] civilization, which means that these formerly center-right parties are now definitely occupying territory that we used to call that of the far-right. So, in that sense, the incremental shift of European Parliament towards the right is not just because of the insurgent far-right, but also because of the mainstream parties.
And then, if we move on to France, I think this is the most unexpected political earthquake to have come from any European elections to have ever held since 1979, which is that they’ve basically created a domestic political crisis in one of European Union’s most important countries, France. And Emmanuel Macron looked at the results and decided that he wanted to confront the far-right, in quite a binary way, holding an election where most of his rivals have very little time to prepare, to mobilize or to organize. And his bet seems to be that if French voters are given a choice, a very clear choice between his party and Marine Le Pen’s far-right, that they will choose him. And even if they don’t, the possibility of having a far-right prime minister for the next couple of years, [00:07:00] before the more important presidential election in 2027. He thinks that they will do such a bad job in office that it will become clear to French voters by 2027 that this is a party that is not fit for governance, and this is a party of incompetent, unprofessional cadres, and they are not ready to run France, and, therefore, consolidate his own power base.
Europe Slides to the Right Unpacking the EU Parliamentary elections. - UNFTR - Air Date 6-15-24
MAX - HOST, UNFTR: Let's zoom out and put the EU in context. The EU formed in 1957 with six founding members: Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands. Over time, it added members to where it stands today at 27. The EU is basically the European continent's answer to the United States. Being a member state means you agree to certain economic, agricultural, immigration, and environmental laws and policies. Most, but not all of these countries also use--or at least accept--the Euro as their currency. While not a military alliance or a single body like the United States, [00:08:00] the idea was to establish a broader, quasi-federal economic and legal framework so Europe could compete with the larger economies like China and the US, and trade on a more equal footing.
It's a complex, yet in some ways fragile alliance that not everyone in Europe loves, as evidenced by the Brexit vote a few years back. Overall though, Europeans are largely in favor of being part of the EU.
Now that said, the minority factions that are vehemently opposed to it are loud and getting louder. And that's what this election somewhat demonstrated.
Every five years, citizens of the member nations in Europe head to the polls to elect the MEPs, and more than 400 million Europeans are eligible to participate. As we said up top, the Parliament is like the House of Representatives, in that there are a bunch of open seats, 720 to be exact, representing an array of political parties from all over Europe.
So, here's the first [00:09:00] wrinkle that makes it a bit different. You can have a left wing party in France and one in Germany that appear similar when you line them up head to head, but they can fall under different umbrella parties. So the first step is to affiliate national parties with the umbrella party that most closely resembles the desires and interests of each nation. Liberalism and conservatism might have very different meanings in France and Hungary.
That's how we get seven major parties. But the individual parties can be severed from the umbrella, and that's what happened with the far-right party in Germany, for example. It's one of the quirks that makes it difficult to tally the final vote until the dust settles completely.
The MEPs that are eventually seated wind up in the Parliament, which creates legislation that is passed to the Council of the EU. So this is the body that acts, I guess, more like the Senate, if we need to draw a comparison. This council is comprised of [00:10:00] ministers from each member state. Now, in Parliament, the leader is typically drawn from the party that has the biggest majority. In this case, it's the EPP, which is a centrist party that is leaning increasingly toward the right. And we'll talk about the differences among and between these right-wing factions, because that's an important piece of the puzzle. But let's continue breaking down the structure before we get there.
Each of these bodies has a leader. There's someone in charge of the European Council, the European Commission, the Council of the EU, Court of Justice, Central Bank, and Parliament. It's why we don't really think of a central figure, like a President or a Prime Minister, when it comes to Europe. But of all of these organizational heads, It's the head of Parliament that is most often recognized as top in the hierarchy. This figure is responsible for the politics of the EU, setting the agenda, building coalitions, establishing legislative [00:11:00] priorities, and coordinating with other heads of state. Currently, that person is Ursula von der Leyen, a center-right politician from Germany. And as head of the EPP, the largest representative bloc in parliament, von der Leyen is the odds-on favorite to continue in the role. But that's where our story gets interesting.
How the EU Parliament Voted This Year - The Brian Lehrer Show - Air Date 6-12-24
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Hello
CALLER (NETHERLANDS): Hi Brian. My daughter Johanna always pushes me to listen to you, and I do, because I try to listen to my children. Okay, the Netherlands has a very right-wing development. We had national elections not long before the European elections, and the outcome was very worrisome. The head of the right-wing party, extreme right-wing party, in the Netherlands is Geert Wilders. Mr. Wilders has strong connections with Orban in Hungary, with Marie Le Pen in France, and with the Flemish right-wing party. So, it's extremely worrisome.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Why is it [00:12:00] happening?
CALLER (NETHERLANDS): Why? For the Netherlands, I think it's a small country. People are worried about immigrants. Even if the foreigners in the Netherlands are mostly temporary, seasonal workers, that then go back after a couple of months to their own country. But that number is being exploited by the right-wing.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: How similar or different does that backlash against immigration look to you as what's happening in New York right now?
CALLER (NETHERLANDS): Oh, that's a difficult question. I think it is similar, but I feel New York is still a democratic place open to foreigners.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Cordula thank you so much for calling. Regina in Matawan, you're on WNYC, hello.
CALLER (GERMANY): Hi, hello. So I'm an immigrant from Germany, I'm here for 40 years. I grew up as the post war [00:13:00] generation in Germany after World War II. Our generation, especially in Germany, thought we had finally learned the lesson, and I'm appalled to see that we're going for another round in Europe, in the USA. There's a lot of drifting to the right and extremism.
I believe some of it is just fear and fear mongering. In Germany, definitely it has to do with immigration and fear, different and fear of running out of resources and being made to share beyond what people are willing to share.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Ah, so a fear of scarcity, or an experience of scarcity.
CALLER (GERMANY): Yes, definitely in there. And, the foreigner being foreign not fitting in. Not doing what is expected.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Thank you very much. And that so backs up our conversation with Murata Waude [00:14:00] from the New York Immigration Coalition on the show the other day. That's what he kept bringing up when I was asking him all these devil's africa questions about how many is too many all at once, what about the reasonable argument by people, or isn't it a reasonable argument by people who don't hate the other to say, "well, 200, 000 more people to New York in the course of two years, is it just too much right now?" and so is Biden's pause reasonable in that respect? And what he kept answering was, we fear scarcity. If we have the right government policies, there wouldn't be scarcity. And so it's an irrational fear of scarcity and inability to deal with it at the policy level. So, just interesting connection between what we heard on the show the other day and what Regina was just talking about.
One more, Anna in Flemington, originally from Poland. Anna, you're on WNYC. Hello.
CALLER (POLAND): Hello, [00:15:00] Brian. I was born and raised in Poland, here in the States for the last 40 years. Very happy that the center held in Poland for the European Parliament. We have the same results there as we had in the Polish election last year. So grateful for that.
And my comment is that I blame Donald Trump for a lot what's happening in Europe. We don't like to easily admit that America has such a huge influence in Europe, but it certainly does. And what's been happening specifically in Poland, and I think in other countries in Europe too, is that the right-wing parties pick up straight out of Donald Trump's playbook. The fake news, the media is the enemy of the people the blatant lies. All of that came to the fore only after 2015 and on.
BRIAN LEHRER - HOST, BRIAN LEHRER SHOW: Yes. And you know, what's interesting Anne Applebaum, the writer for the Atlantic who's also from Poland, has [00:16:00] a new piece that says, if you're worried about contagion from Europe's move to the far-right here in the US, don't be because we led them into it. So it sounds like you agree with Anne Applebaum. Anna, thank you very much for your call.
Does the economy matter to the far right - Business Beyond - Air Date 5-31-24
DW NEWS REPORTER: She thinks classic left-right divides over the economy are gradually being superseded by a split over cultural issues.
PIPPA NORRIS: And it's a wide range of issues, on issues like, for example, abortion or reproductive rights, LGBTQ rights, nationalism versus cosmopolitanism, human rights versus a sense of a strong state.
DW NEWS REPORTER: It helps explain why you're probably more likely to hear politicians like Donald Trump or Viktor Orban decrying the so-called "woke" agenda, then discussing economic policy.
PIPPA NORRIS: Some people again talk about populism, which is a very vague term. But really, it's about the values, about the moral issues and the social issues which divide society. And classically, of course, that includes immigration in Europe, but many [00:17:00] other issues that go along that. But I think nowadays, the idea that there's a simple unidimensional left-right spectrum is more misleading and confuses more than actually helps us to understand why these parties appeal to a wide variety of different voters.
DW NEWS REPORTER: Let's drill a little deeper into this idea that it is culture rather than the economy which has driven support for these parties.
Phillip Rathgeb is a lecturer at the University of Edinburgh and he has studied far-right parties in detail. I asked him to what extent economic policy motivates these parties and their voters.
PHILLIP RATHGEB: So they had their first electoral breakthroughs in the 80s and the 1990s and that was a context where the economy was very much depoliticised. In a sense that there was a market conforming consensus, an economically liberal consensus that depoliticized the economy and thereby opened the door for the politicization of other issues--that is, immigration, asylum, gender identity. And these are the [00:18:00] issues on which these parties are in a good position to mobilize. That's their territory. That's their home turf, if you will.
DW NEWS REPORTER: Pippa Norris says the issue of immigration in particular shows how it is culture rather than economics which motivates voters to support these parties.
She points to the success of anti-immigrant parties in EU countries where the economy has performed relatively strongly over recent decades.
PIPPA NORRIS: Think about the countries which have had tremendous economic growth and a fairly generous welfare state. Think about Sweden, think about Denmark, think about the Netherlands, and think about Germany. And all of those are ones which weren't that affected by the euro crisis. In all of these countries I just mentioned, in the affluent north of Europe, there's been a strong party which has emerged in each case.
DW NEWS REPORTER: However, immigration is still connected to economic issues for some far-right supporters.
PHILLIP RATHGEB: In northern Europe, they don't go against foreign goods [00:19:00] because they have export surpluses. They don't go against foreign capital because they have a solid loyal employer and business class. But they go against foreign people in a sense that what they mobilize on is welfare chauvinism. Because these countries, they have relatively high levels of immigration, but also royalty, high levels of welfare.
So here the nationalist impulse goes against welfare entitlements for foreigners.
DW NEWS REPORTER: But the experts we spoke to believe that economic indicators do not determine where the far-right will be strong.
PIPPA NORRIS: Economic inequality at the objective level measured by, for example, inflation, jobs or unemployment, or other indicators such as GDP growth or GDP levels, does not predict where you see these parties emerging.
DW NEWS REPORTER: But are there still economic factors which determine why certain voters go with the far-right? After the Brexit and Trump votes in 2016, a common narrative was that it was disenfranchised, poorer [00:20:00] voters who had secured the paths to victory.
LIANA FIX: It certainly is a correlation, but we should also not underestimate to what extent right-wing populism is attractive to not only the lower income or de-industrialized voter base.
DW NEWS REPORTER: That's Liana Fix, a historian and political scientist, and she says it's important to note that far-right parties pick up support from voters of various socioeconomic backgrounds.
LIANA FIX: Crunching down the numbers, there's also significant support for right-wing parties that comes from middle class, higher middle class, and also not underestimate that it's not the fault of the poor who are only working for the populists, voting for the populists or for the extremists. There are also other voters that are attracted by these parties.
PHILLIP RATHGEB: These voters are not the poor. So the poor, either they vote for the left or they don't vote at all, so that the poor have really a low level of turnout. And so what the radical right is, that their electoral [00:21:00] stronghold is rather among the lower middle class and working class.
How Deep Does Right Wing Extremism Go In The Republican Party With Teddy Wilson - The Muckrake Political Podcast - Air Date 6-11-24
JARED YATES SEXTON - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: It's anti immigration xenophobic sort of energies, rising right-wing authoritarianism, which is something that we unfortunately always have to tell people about.
There's a couple of things that are happening. First of all, this is a gamble. —the idea of going ahead and holding snap elections. If this doesn't happen, and for people who don't know this, Macron's term—the next full election—is supposed to be in 2027, which according to my math is three years from now.
The idea, I think, is that if this isn't done there will be the specter of national rally that will be hanging over his presidency and his term as well. I think he looks at a couple of things that are just coming up. Of course, we have the Olympics that are going to take place in Paris.
And by the way, if that's part of the gamble, there are major, major rumors and fears of terrorism taking place at this year's Olympics, which probably could help National [00:22:00] Rally possibly win some votes. We could be looking at a circumstance where National Rally could gain popular support in France in these elections.
You would have Emmanuel Macron as president, and you could have Jordan Bardella, who is this 28 year old phenom within the National Rally who is incredibly scary. He's already being positioned as the future far-right ruler of France. This is a guy who doesn't even shy away from white replacement theory as one of his major ideological narratives.
The possibility is that he could become the prime minister of France. So you could have, theoretically, a divided government in France between Emmanuel Macron—who is not only a neoliberal, but has moved further and further to the right—a center right president, the far, far-right National Rally, which—part of the analysis I wanted to talk about before we moved on from this, Nick, is that centrists, like Macron, are becoming more and [00:23:00] more comfortable working with the far-right. So yes, we could have a divided government, but we could also have a France that is going along with the trajectory of what you and I have been talking about, which is the beginning of a right-wing momentum that is starting to influence, not just politics, but to bring the center further and further right.
NICK HAUSELMAN - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: Yeah. And again, I don't want to belabor the point necessarily of immigration into other people's countries, cause we're dealing with it here, as well. It's a very intoxicating argument, right? You can prey on people's fears of people just pouring into our country—they're changing the culture, all these different things. And you can get someone who is not connected to politics to get behind something like that, right? "Oh, I don't want that in my neighborhood. I don't want that," and that's what's concerning.
I actually did a little bit of research to figure out, in Europe, where are a lot of immigrants coming from that is causing so much of this hand wringing. It was interesting because it seems like Syria is the number one place, and then Afghanistan is also on—
JARED YATES SEXTON - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: That's so weird that Syria and Afghanistan would be supplying a bunch of [00:24:00] immigrants.
I don't know of anything that Western democracies have done to increase immigrants from Syria or Afghanistan. That's weird.
NICK HAUSELMAN - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: Or with Syria itself and the leadership there, what have they done to lead to an exodus that people need to leave from there as well, right? That's the other issue. And so I'm always looking at this as like, what is the solution?
What are you supposed to do to try and tamp this down? We're going to talk about this with our guests in terms of right-wing extremism, but I'm not exactly sure. Because again, if you wanted to address the notion of people immigrating to your country, I suppose we're supposed to welcome that and be able to maximize that as a cultural thing anyway.
Instead it's becoming this lightning rod that has led to extremism and the other side. You know what I mean?
JARED YATES SEXTON - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: Well, the truth is that immigration is sort of the false thing that we're talking about. The problem isn't immigration. Like when you actually take a look at cosmopolitan liberalism, like you're [00:25:00] supposed to have "melting pots," we're supposed to bring people in and we're supposed to become a larger society change and evolve, progress, all of that.
That's not the issue. The issue is that in an age of austerity, where people feel more and more like they can't get ahead, they can't afford homes. Their work is constantly becoming more and more exploited. By the way, in the background of all this—not just in France, but in the United States—that social safety net is being absolutely shredded, right?
The line between you living a life and you falling into abject poverty and falling behind is getting smaller and smaller and eventually destroyed. As a result, what happens? White supremacy and chauvinism, they grow. Well, okay, so can we have a society where we're all living and striving and changing, or is it group versus group versus group?
And in France, for instance, you have a lot of the social safety net that's going away. Emmanuel Macron has spent most of his tenure getting rid of that social safety net and, and the [00:26:00] programs in France that are supposed to make people feel more and more comfortable—which is what happens with neoliberal globalism.
As a result, immigration becomes the cause célèbre, right? It becomes the thing where all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, it's dog eat dog already. We don't need more people coming in. We need to get rid of them." And you see that white supremacy starting to come out, which is why you have right-wing authoritarianism, not just growing around the world, France, United States, we're looking at Germany, we're looking at Great Britain, and all these Western democracies, but what you're actually watching is that the focus, is that the terms of the competition that we're talking about, these elections, it changes. Instead of talking about making the world better for people, you're talking about who deserves what scraps are remaining.
So it's sort of a false question that, unfortunately it's where—National Rally—they prevail. It's where the Republican party prevails. We even see in America [00:27:00] now where liberals are like, "Oh man, immigration really needs to be shut down. And maybe we need to close the border." Like you're starting to see this becoming a bipartisan push because you're not actually addressing the conditions that are leading to the supposed problem in the first place.
NICK HAUSELMAN - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: I also wonder if this is also an incumbency problem, whereas if you're a sitting duck, if you're already in power and you're just right to be criticized to no end for and without much recourse. The problem with that is, is that it seems like if a authoritarian comes into power in that manner. they become the incumbent, but it takes longer for that spell to wear off. You might end up being 15 years worth of authoritarianism before you can maybe finally get to move on to something else, which we've seen. But that's a huge chunk of a lot of people's lives to have to deal with that until it's over.
JARED YATES SEXTON - CO-HOST, MUCKRAKE POLITICAL PODCAST: Well, if you ever get on the other side of it. It's one of those things. You know, actually, we talked to Teddy Wilson a [00:28:00] little bit about this in the interview later, he was talking about how a lot of right-wing extremists saw Trump saying, you know, "I fixed the border problem. I built the wall," and they're like, "No, you didn't. You didn't take care of this." For a lot of people though, trump's saying, "I built the wall. I took care of immigration. And by the way, you have these scenes of brutality—of children in camps and cages—that makes people feel like the problem's being taken care of. But when, like you said, the incumbency problem, Joe Biden could not be reached for comment on this.
This is not a good time to be in charge because none of the powers that be are particularly interested in solving this. They're going to continue to do some of these right-wing things, whether it's executive actions on immigration or—Macron is shameless in this stuff. And I guarantee you, if National Rally wins, he is going to be more than happy to work with them in this government.
We're going to talk about Netanyahu in a second. He's the same way. He was more than happy to reach across to the far-right and make common cause with them. So, yeah. It ends up in a place [00:29:00] where authoritarians say, "Listen, everything is absolutely screwed up. Give us full power." And then they create the fantasy that things are being taken care of.
They don't actually take care of things, but it feels good because your enemies are upset. And because you're getting that cathartic feeling of the clash of civilizations, which is what they based their appeal on in the first place.
What is behind the rise of the far-right in Europe - Al Jazeera English - Air Date 6-11-24
JANINE DI GIOVANNI: No actually, I disagree with it because I'm deeply concerned. I am a European. I also work within the realm of foreign policy, largely in Ukraine. I run an NGO there—a war crimes unit called the Reckoning Project—but also in the Middle East. And I've worked for many years on refugee issues, most notably during the Syrian crisis, which brought so many refugees to Europe, which did trigger so much of the far-right reaction. So for me, I am looking at this through a lens of a globalist.
I'm seeing trends of popular—more populist governments. America—I just came back from three weeks working in Washington DC. I'm deeply, deeply concerned that Trump is [00:30:00] now much more of a viable option than he was before. I believe these elections will empower him in many ways, as well as voters in America.
But also I think more importantly, we have to look at something really significant, which is where these votes came from. They came from youth, right? So a lot of it came from young people who don't read newspapers anymore, but they're on TikTok. And Jordan Bardella, the French [candidate] who has led, Marine Le Pen's successor is very much a product of TikTok and of Instagram.
He's young. He's 28 years old. He's fresh faced. He has very little political experience. But the votes, the French youth, have very much shown that they are tired of establishment. Same in Germany, which is interesting. Everyone thought the far-right was going to be crusty kind of skinheads, but it's not.
I mean, there was a recent incident [00:31:00] on an Island in Germany, a wealthy Island where young people were shown singing far-right songs and slogans. So I think we need to see, look at carefully, where is this coming from?
It's also not new, you know. It didn't come out of nowhere. It's been coming for decades and, 20 years ago in France, in 2004, there were riots on the outskirts of France, which were very much a protest of youth—largely immigrants, children of immigrants from Africa and North Africa—feeling very disenfranchised with society.
I think now we are coming into a period where France is extremely vulnerable—with the wars both in Ukraine and in Gaza, and perhaps the threat of terrorist attacks, and of course the Olympic Games coming up three weeks after the vote. The new vote that Macron has called.
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: Well, Janine, I want to dig into a little bit of what's happening right now in France.
I'll move on to the vote in just a moment, but you [00:32:00] mentioned Jordan Bardella, the successor to Marine Le Pen and the National Rally, as you say, 28 years old. He is, I understand, also the son of immigrants. It does feel like in the past few years that what was the National Front, now the National Rally, they've been trying to clean up their image.
They've been trying to appeal to a broader audience, and they've also shifted on policy somewhat. How much of a difference has that made?
JANINE DI GIOVANNI: Absolutely. It's really interesting to see Marine Le Pen, whose father was mired in anti Semitism, during the pro Palestinian rallies, her coming out as a defender of the French Jewish community, which of course is the largest Jewish community in Europe.
This is a real—it's not to say anti Semitism doesn't exist. Of course it does, but that she— the far-right traditionally does take a pro Israel stance, right? Because it followed Netanyahu. They see him as one of their own—an authoritarian leader who, uh, basically uses physical [00:33:00] force to crush people.
So I think this whole concept of the old skinheads—Neo Nazis that we had in Europe, say in Sweden, in Germany, in France 20, 15, even 10 years ago, is changing. And Jordan Bardella is extremely popular with the youth because people don't read newspapers anymore, or even watch. Unfortunately, they're looking at less television.
They're on TikTok and they're on Instagram. And Jordan Bardella is a hero in that. He's mastered it. He's come of age with it. So I think it's really important that we take this into account more so now than I think any other election. And I, as a European, I am deeply concerned about this, and it might not be in this immediate outcome, but I think long term projection of what will happen in Europe, we are definitely leaning more towards the right.
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: Well, Katy, let me ask you then about some of the political strategy here, because if we are [00:34:00] seeing these shifts in France, you have to wonder, what is Macron thinking right now with calling this parliamentary snap election? Is he—is this about setting the scene for the 2027 presidential election? Because obviously we know that Jordan Bardella is the successor to Le Pen.
Le Pen is saying that if they do well enough he would be prime minister, so then he would end up in a, what they're calling a cohabitation government with Macron. I mean, this sounds incredibly awkward for Macron, but also potentially could show, whether or not they can govern?
KATY BROWN: I think it's kind of a dangerous idea that you should almost test the far-right in government to show that they fail to govern well.
And I think, again, with Macron, we need to think about his role in all of this—in pushing regressive policies around, for instance, the immigration bill that was passed in January this year, and [00:35:00] that was heavily criticized for pandering to the far-right. It proposed a limit on access to social security benefits for people coming to the country.
You can also think of the ban on wearing the abaya in schools in France. Again, this was pushed by Macron. And that relied, again, on these classic islamophobic tropes that the far-right use and the idea of secularism within France which is used to restrict Muslim women's rights. So, when we think about Macron's position in terms of the far-right, and now this decision to hold the election, he risks further normalizing far-right politics and giving them another form of legitimacy through this election.
So I think it's a very dangerous position that he's been toying with for a number of years.
Far Right Surges in European Elections - Pod Save The World - Air Date 6-12-24
BEN RHODES - CO-HOST, POD SAVE THE WORLD: Substantively, what issues do you see the parliament having—the biggest decisions to make in the coming year or [00:36:00] two? And how might this election affect those issues?
DR. ROSA BALFOUR: There are two areas I'm worried about insofar as the gains of the radical right are concerned. The first is Europe's climate agenda. Europe has been pioneering a climate agenda. It pushed through the Green Deal, and now we're seeing that the radical right is really pushing back against A, the diktat coming from Brussels (the simple fact that Brussels is actually setting the pace of the agenda) [and] B: challenging some of the ideas that are connected to the need to green the economy.
And the problem is not so much the radical right, The problem is the fact that center right parties often respond to those instances coming from the radical right by watering down measures that have been already agreed upon. So what I'm worried about is the implementation of the Green Deal, and I'm worried that it'll get watered down.
The second area I'm worried [00:37:00] about is rights. The European Parliament has always been a very progressive actor. It has worked hard to promote human rights, LGBTIQ rights, gender issues, and a whole set of progressive issues. And the European Parliament has really pushed for them. And, um, The risk is that this whole set of issues will go on the back burner.
And there are all sorts of issues related to it. For instance, academic freedom. For instance, the degree to which human rights are incorporated in dialogue with third countries. There are all sorts of dimensions of this, and they really risk being put on the back burner if the champions of the progressive policies are silenced and if the mainstream parties feel that they should not endorse that agenda for fear of antagonizing the radical right.
BEN RHODES - CO-HOST, POD SAVE THE WORLD: That leads me to one last question here, which is that we're obviously in a pretty [00:38:00] unsteady international political environment. The U. S. could swing to Trump dealing with our own divisions, China increasingly being viewed as a competitor, certainly by the U. S. and by some in Europe, Russia is in Ukraine, Middle East is on fire—
All this would suggest that now is a time when Europe would want to coalesce around a set of positions and a set of political views, but it does feel like what we just learned is it's actually gonna be harder for Europe to do that, and we'll see what happens in the French election. What does this mean for how we should look at european politics in this global context? How is Europe going to be able to speak with one voice or to take on hard issues when there's such internal divisions that we see in these elections?
DR. ROSA BALFOUR: Yeah. No, this is going to be really difficult, and if the EU sees through the next five years without fragmenting too much, that already will be an achievement. [00:39:00] If the EU manages to stick to its promise towards Ukraine, that will already be an achievement. But I don't think we can expect a European Union that is proactively engaged with the rest of the world. It's already going to be hard to find the consensus around the degree to which The EU needs to fireproof its own economic model—its own democracy— against all these threats.
One thing to look out for, I think, is there are going to be elections in the UK, soon, in July. I think one thing to look out for is how European Union can connect with its neighbors. So at least try to build a bit of a block there and some common principles which, you know, might give the region a bit, little bit more weight and clout.
And then the other, of course, is what happens in France and Germany, because we've seen very weak leadership coming from those two [00:40:00] countries and now they come out of the European Parliament elections. I mean, it's been a real bashing for them. There's going to be snap elections in France for the Assemblée, but Macron will be fully in charge until the next presidential elections that are in 2027.
In Germany, the next elections are going to be in 2025, and it looks like the center rights will win, and maybe there'll be some new leadership coming out of Germany. But at the moment we cannot assume. I think all countries, large countries, or blocs in the case of the European Union, that have all been consumed by domestic politics and unable to really engage With all the international challenges—this is going to continue in Europe for sure.
Europe Slides to the Right Unpacking the EU Parliamentary elections. Part 2 - UNFTR - Air Date 6-15-24
MAX - HOST, UNFTR: Macron has managed to piss off almost everyone in an attempt to straddle the middle and assert himself as the ultimate statesman able to meet the moment on a continent in turmoil. He's become increasingly militaristic and anti-working [00:41:00] class in an attempt to pass himself off as strong. This is, as usual, such a classic blunder on the part of the liberal bourgeoisie, always desperate to maintain power by projecting strength.
According to the Times, quote, "right-wing parties now govern alone or as part of coalitions in seven of the European Union's 27 countries. They've gained across the continent as voters have grown more concentrated on nationalism and identity, often tied to migration, and some of the same culture war politics pertaining to gender and LGBTQ issues that have gained traction in the United States," end quote.
The World Socialist website nails it when it comes to figures like Macron or von der Leyen. Quote, "The rise of the far-right is the product of the systematic disenfranchisement of the workers by nationalistic, bureaucratic organizations that the media and the ruling class promote as the 'left.' [00:42:00] Unlike the far-right, which tries to exploit mass discontent with the existing political system, these parties of the affluent middle class exude complacency and self satisfaction. Even in the face of war between nuclear armed powers, genocide, and the surge of police state and fascistic forms of rule, these organizations insist that popular opposition must be tied to debilitating alliances with parties of capitalist government and allied union bureaucracies.
"Whatever criticisms they make of the far-right, they're far more hostile to Trotskyism and to building a revolutionary movement in the European working class for socialism," end quote.
Now, I think we can all agree that a far-right nationalistic surge in Europe has a pretty terrible track record. This moment is reminiscent of another time the European nations were tested by a war on the continent that [00:43:00] drove nationalistic tendencies. After the shock of the Russian Revolution, there was this sense that Germany might be next in line for a socialist movement to take root.
Instead, the German SPD leaned into bourgeois nationalism and turned its back on populist worker movements by issuing war credits. Left movements were brutally put down, leading to the executions of key figures like Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, effectively neutralizing the left wing in Germany and paving the way for Anton Drexler's German Workers Party, which eventually morphed into the German Nazi Party. And it all happened very quickly. How quickly? About three years.
So when figures like Douglas Murray assume patronizing postures and dismiss the correlation between far-right rhetoric and fascistic tendencies, they're either historically illiterate or deliberately obfuscating.
Snuffing out left wing movements and promoting half measures that ignore the authentic expressions of [00:44:00] disenfranchised workers is a dangerous game.
I mean, we're seeing it in the United States. Just take Biden's border policy. His half-hearted root cause strategy in Latin America ignored the larger context of economic and physical insecurity that looms over many of the originating migrant nations. It was wholly insufficient to bring about real change and failed to halt the flow of asylum seekers at the border. And so, he moved right, in an effort to steal Trump's thunder on the border ahead of the election.
At the very moment the United States needs a coordinated left wing movement to address the concerns of the working class, the so-called left is in shambles. Cornel West and Jill Stein are rounding errors in the grand scheme of things, and even they're at odds. The Bernie wing has splintered over the massacre in Gaza, and failure to mount a united, progressive front to pull the Democratic Party to the left as well. The only three candidates in contention for the [00:45:00] presidency are center right, far-right, and who the fuck knows?
The same holds true in Europe, where the far left finds itself in utter disarray and on the outside looking in, as the EPP coordinates with the likes of Maloney and Le Pen to retain power.
Capitalism will always produce half measures that betray the working class and build wealth and power among elites. It will always protect those in power and pit the bureaucrats against those they're hired to serve.
We know from our progressive meditation episode that we lost the 2024 election a long time ago and now Europe is heading in the same direction.
Left wing victories in Latin America are now the outliers in the world today, but they provide at least a glimmer of hope that leftist values can take hold. The only question is whether these lights will burn bright enough to guide progressives before capitalism's final [00:46:00] act brings about the next great war and we descend further into the climate abyss.
Final comments on the snowball effect of factors leading to a rightward shift in politics
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: We've just heard clips starting with Democracy Now!, describing the outcome of the EU elections. Unf*cking the Republic dove deeper into the structure and historical context of the EU. The Brian Lehrer Show took calls from listeners reacting to the elections. Business Beyond looked at the cultural motivations for supporting right-wing politics. The Muckrake Political Podcast discussed France's snap election and the role of immigration in their politics. Al Jazeera also looked at refugees and the far-right in France. Pod Save the World considered some of the policy impacts the election of more conservatives may have on Europe. And Unf*cking the Republic called out the role of capitalism and the fear of socialism in abandoning the working class and making way for the right.
And those were just the top takes. There's a lot more in the deeper dive section. But first, a reminder that this show is supported by members who get access to bonus episodes featuring the production crew here, discussing all [00:47:00] manner of important and interesting topics, often trying to make each other laugh in the process. To support all our work and have those bonus episodes delivered seamlessly to the new members-only podcast feed that you'll receive, sign up to support the show at bestoftheleft.com/support. There's a link in the show notes, through our Patreon page, or from right inside the Apple podcast app. If regular membership isn't in the cards for you, shoot me an email requesting a financial hardship membership, because we don't let a lack of funds stand in the way of hearing more information.
Now, before we continue to the deeper dives half of the show, as I often do, I did some deep reading on today's topic and want to highlight one particular article. This one from The Guardian: "Don't blame voters for a far-right surge in Europe. Blame the far-right's mainstream copycats". And this is a concept that is addressed by some clips today in the show, but I also thought this provided a good breakdown. It describes multiple unrelated events or social [00:48:00] phenomenon that have collectively created a sort of snowball effect benefiting right-wing politics.
It says, "The first push came from the weakening of social ties. Take the Netherlands as an example. In the 1950s, a typical person raised in a Catholic family, attended Catholic schools, consumed Catholic media and eventually voted for a Catholic party. Today such predictable voting patterns are rare. Higher levels of education have empowered individuals to make independent political choices, breaking free from traditional party loyalties. Starting in the 1960s and gathering steam since the turn of the millennium, electoral volatility has enabled far-right parties to attract voters who are no longer bound by old allegiances. Where individualization led to 'dealignment' (voters breaking free of existing political alignments), globalisation contributed to 'realignment' (new alignments between voters and parties). Those who [00:49:00] benefited from Europe's open borders – the highly educated 'winners of globalisation' – contrasted sharply with those who felt threatened economically and culturally by these changes. Immigration became a key topic in election campaigns and these public debates, drawing more attention to far-right parties".
So, then the article goes on to describe how the right has embraced populism over fascism, emphasizing the will of the people over the elites, whereas fascism is more that traditionally hierarchical form that they hoped sort of would frame the right as the true voice of the people, and it's no coincidence that Steve Bannon refers to audience feedback on his War Room show as "vox populi", which means "voice of the people", just in Latin, because he's a douche, I guess. The rise of social media also aligns with this anti-elite [00:50:00] messaging by allowing right-wing commentators, like Steve Bannon, and politicians to connect with people directly in a way that circumvents mainstream media, which, for all its flaws, generally didn't promote extreme politics. And so if you were an extremist, you did sort of have to find your way over the top of that to get to your desired audience. And that mechanism, that need to go around mainstream media, then created the dynamic where the mainstream media is part of the bad guy. Right? And it also sort of bonds people together, like being an outsider is something that bonds people together. So, the right is sort of more fanatical in their devotion to their cause because of that outsider feel. So, the extremism of the politics helps with the cohesion of it, I guess.
The article also describes how the right has attempted to, [00:51:00] like, moderate, just in their marketing, not their policies, really. Maybe a couple, but mostly they're just making themselves look softer and cuddlier in an attempt to sway more voters. Then we come to the role of the supposed adversaries of right-wing politics. This is the point highlighted in the title. It says, "Ironically, the next big push of the snowball has come from far-right parties' main adversaries: the established mainstream parties themselves. As far-right parties become more successful, right-wing mainstream parties grew nervous. The electoral gains of the far-right often came at the expense of mainstream parties' vote shares. What should they do about it? Many mainstream governing parties adopted an 'accommodative' strategy, incorporating far-right ideas into their own policies to win back votes. Did it work? No. Studies indicate that, if anything, this strategy has resulted in more votes for the [00:52:00] far-right. Why? Because by copying some of their ideas, mainstream parties have legitimized the far-right. Once the ideas of far-right parties have been normalized. Why would those who agree with them vote for the copycat?"
And then the final piece is the power of habituation among voters, which I think the last piece sort of teed up. "People get used to things that happen repeatedly. Hearing far-right rhetoric nonstop, seeing mainstream parties move toward the far-right, and observing the far-right's increasing social media presence and vote shares, has normalized far-right ideology.
And then the article ends with a call to action, which is nothing like super-flashy and exciting. It is just the, you know, the sort of old school work of getting people to fall in love with democracy again. It says, "What can be done to stop this? Criticizing [00:53:00] far-right parties for their illiberalism remains crucial, but it is no longer sufficient. To protect our democracies, we must cultivate a strong collective consciousness of democratic liberalism. This means promoting what we value. Think of mutual tolerance, political pluralism, individual rights, and checks and balances to hold the powerful to account. In addition, we must condemn what threatens it. Educators, journalists, academics, and artists must work to strengthen citizens' democratic awareness and resilience. Only through such concerted efforts can we safeguard the increasingly fragile foundations of our liberal democracies.
SECTION A: THE EU STRUCTURE AND ELECTION RESULTS
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: And now we'll continue with deeper dives on three topics. Next up, Section A: the EU structure and election results. Section B: immigration and the culture war. And section C: the playbook and messaging of the far-right.
Germany's Chancellor Scholz alarmed by far-right surge - DW News - Air Date 6-10-24
PHIL GAYLE - ANCHOR, DW NEWS: so Chancellor Scholz is social democrat. Thank you very much. took just 14 percent of, uh, this vote. We just heard [00:54:00] him saying they can't carry on with business as usual. What do you think will actually change?
MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG: Well, good evening. I think unfortunately for Schultz, it's going to be very difficult to change anything substantially in time for the elections next year, which are scheduled for the fall of 2025. And to really turn things around in Germany by then, I think is a pretty tall order. His statement today, which Came kind of late, it came 24 hours after these election results came in.
It seems sort of like a, an act of desperation almost, he didn't really know what to say. This is the kind of thing that we've heard from him in the past. And I think his challenge is that in the eyes of so many Germans, he's It's completely lost credibility.
PHIL GAYLE - ANCHOR, DW NEWS: And so, it's not just him though, is it? There is a coalition.
There's his Social Democrats with the Greens and the Liberals. Why is it performing, this coalition? Why is it performing so badly?[00:55:00]
MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG: I think there are a number of factors here. The biggest thing right now, I think, is that the economy is stagnating and they haven't really found a way out of that. Although, unemployment remains very low in Germany. People are still feeling the economic strains. Another very contentious issue that has hit the greens quite hard is the, uh, the climate policies of this government and at the EU level.
In particular, this decision to phase out, uh, fuel burning cars by, uh, beginning in 2035. Which effectively means that Germans and other Europeans won't be able to buy the, the diesels and the, the gas powered cars that, uh, that they are so famous for in Germany. And I think that's created a lot of resentment.
Uh, and then, you know, there's still some, some lingering, uh, frustration, I would say about the, the COVID policies. That's also been a driver for the, for the AFD, but the biggest issue, and [00:56:00] I would say the issue where Schultz has really failed, even by his own standards, is in controlling, uh, migration, which is something that has been on the front burner in the domestic political debate for quite a long time.
Last fall, Schulz promised to begin, uh, deporting, uh, people from Germany whose asylum applications were rejected, um, on a grand scale. That hasn't happened. And so I think a lot of people are, are looking at him now as somebody who has basically failed to, um, to stand by the promises that, that he
PHIL GAYLE - ANCHOR, DW NEWS: made to fulfil those promises.
The big story of the day, uh, not just here in Germany but in France and elsewhere is the the performance of the, uh, the far-right parties. And here in Germany, the AFD has gained a lot of votes despite recent scandals, such as this secret conference at which they discussed deporting [00:57:00] foreigners, and despite suspected espionage by employees of the AFD's top candidates.
So why are they well,
MATTHEW KARNITSCHNIG: I think it tells you something that, uh, despite these scandals, the party is still as strong as it is at around 16%. And I think the reason is is that for many voters, it is a protest and it speaks as much to the failure of this coalition that came into power at the end of 2021 as it does the To the allure of these radical policies that, uh, you know, the AFD is, is propagating now, um, you know, the, the issue of migration is not new in Germany.
It's not new in Europe, obviously. It's, it's been a, a very emotional issue for, for some time. And, uh, you know, government after government here has unfortunately really failed to address the issues that are driving [00:58:00] support for, um, the far-right, in particular, in, you know, smaller towns around the country that are seeing their infrastructure really strained by the arrival of, of so many, of so many migrants.
And beyond that, I think it's, it's also a, it's a cultural issue. There's a sense that, uh, you know, the country's culture is changing. Some people are uncomfortable with that. And here again, it seems like Schultz hasn't really, hasn't really done enough to assuage those concerns of the population.
Far Right Surges in European Elections Part 2 - Pod Save The World - Air Date 6-12-24
BEN RHODES - CO-HOST, POD SAVE THE WORLD: And on the far-right, um, you described kind of differences among far-right parties. You know, some are far-right xenophobic and kind of are willing to kind of make common cause in some ways with Russia. Some are far-right and nationalist and anti Russian, right? That's just one issue. What do you think the potential is for these far-right parties to actually work together?
And, and what do you think they're trying? To do, you know, in, in, in the, in the American context, I guess it's like, uh, MAGA people [00:59:00] getting elected to Congress to kind of make it not work or something. Right? Because these are people that are usually outwardly hostile to the EU as an institution. What do you think all these far-right members believe they're going to Brussels to do?
DR. ROSA BALFOUR: Yeah, I mean the truth is that in the past many of these did very well in the European Parliament elections But then they didn't show up. So they you know, they just didn't show up. They didn't come to vote They didn't participate in the debates and sometimes they voted one way And then went home and pretended that they'd voted in another way.
So, you know, they've, they've benefited enormously by the fact that there isn't that much scrutiny, uh, with respect to what ha what happens in the European, uh, Parliament. But of course now, you know, it's not just that. together they've managed to get 25 percent of the votes, roughly, in the European Parliament.
It's also that they're doing well at national elections. So, in seven EU member states, we have governments that are either included to the radical right, or are led by the radical right, or are supported by the [01:00:00] radical right. And, you know, it could happen that after the snap elections in France, Rassemblement National will be able to vote.
become the first party and therefore another government, uh, led by the radical right. That makes it eight. And then in September, we have elections in Austria where the radical right came, uh, top in the European parliament election. So it's likely that the next prime minister, the next chancellor of, um, Austria will be, uh, uh, You know, the leader of the radical right party.
So that makes it nine governments out of 27. And that's when, you know, you need to start looking a little bit more seriously at what these parties want and what they think and not just at what they've done in the past. So you're right to ask, what is it that they want? If we take the playbook of Viktor Orbán, who has been leading Hungary for 14 years now, Um, what he wants is the economic benefits [01:01:00] of being part of Europe, that is the single market, the economic opportunities that European programs offer to member, to countries.
But what he doesn't want is the scrutiny from Brussels on rule of law. He doesn't want to conform to, uh, the sort of collective agreement over, for instance, foreign policy matters. And, um, you know, as, uh, um, Boris Johnson, who, you know, led, uh, the UK out of, um, uh, the European Union, he wants to have his cake and eat it.
And the question is, is that possible? Is it possible to have a European Union, um, that is formed of, you know, countries that are loosely hanging in there together without uh, the glue of, um, uh, deeper integration without the glue of political values that can hold them together. And that is a big question.
[01:02:00] Um, but clearly, um, at this present historical juncture, um, it is a question that needs to be addressed, um, because, you know, Europe is seriously challenged, um, internally by these political parties and externally by the international environment.
SECTION B: IMMIGRATION AND THE CULTURE WAR
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: Now entering section B: immigration and the culture war.
Is the Reason Fascism Is Taking Over the World More Frightening Than Fascism Itself - Thom Hartmann Program - Air Date 6-17-24
CALLER: I think Tom, if you take a, if you study history and you look around the world, uh, not just your own little bubble like a lot of people do, you can see there is a march toward oligarchies throughout the world. You know, there are so many places that are turning to right-wing politicians and I'd like to know who's funding all this because this isn't, and if you listen, they're all using the same playbook.
It's, it's the immigrants, it's the border, it's the gays, and if you go back and you look at Nazi propaganda, you give people somebody to [01:03:00] blame. You're not a billionaire like Trump, you're not a billionaire like Putin, you're not super rich. You know whose fault it is? It's those immigrants, it's those gay people, it's those transgender people.
And we all know who, if you're smart, you know it's the corporations who took your job and sent it to India or China or Vietnam or Mexico so they could pay somebody pennies on the dollar. That's what really happened, but it gets somebody to blame and, and there are lots of people, uh, in America and around the world that aren't doing that great.
And if they've got somebody to blame, then they don't have to look at themselves and go, Well, maybe I should have got a skilled trade. Maybe I should have got a degree and got a better job. But it, it, it seems like it, I hate to say conspiracy, but it seems like it's happening everywhere. And for it all to happen at one time, I can't say it's [01:04:00] organic.
It just didn't spring up. And the fact that they're all using the same talking points, Yep. And people tend to ignore it because I'm wondering to, you know, most corporate corporations on the media. And I think a lot of stuff we're not getting this panic button going and look around. I get what you're saying.
THOM HARTMANN - HOST, THOM HARTMANN PROGRAM: I think there's I think there's two factors at work here. The first is that Billionaires around the world. Uh, or at least in many countries, have figured out that, uh, American billionaires have learned how to game the system. Now, in part, this is because the Supreme Court legalized political bribery, which is not the case in most other countries.
But, um, you know, they're looking at the success of, you know, the average American billionaire right now pays 3. 4 percent in income taxes. You know, uh, most people pay, you [01:05:00] know, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30%, you know, depending on their income. And so, you know, billionaires around the world are working on that kind of thing.
So there's that kind of funding of a right-wing movement. And the right-wing movement always embraces the billionaires. But I think the larger issue Is that when, when the bread crisis was happening across the northern part of Africa, this was the result of climate change. The desert had moved a hundred miles south in Syria and wiped out millions of farmers, or hundreds of thousands of farmers.
And so they all ended up in Damascus and Aleppo, you know, in the, in the major cities. Uh, you know, as homeless people, basically, and they started demanding food and, uh, and a place to live. And, and the Assad's response to that was to, to send the soldiers into the streets and shoot protesters. And that then led to riots in the cities.
So what happened was, uh, over a million and, and some argue over 2 million, [01:06:00] uh, dark skinned Syrians fled North Africa. Most of, many of them went through Libya, you know, got on boats, went to southern Italy and Greece, and then spread throughout Europe. Germany took in a million of them. I mean, a million! And, uh, embraced them.
This was Angela Merkel. Um, Sweden took in several hundred thousand, which was the equivalent of more than a million when you, to population. Um, and what has happened now is that because of local, um, discrimination, uh, local old boy networks, people tend to hire people who they know, right? People who they feel comfortable with.
And, and so these, these immigrants in Europe have not been able to get good jobs. Uh, they're very upset about it. Uh, many of them have turned to crime. Uh, they're, they've been essentially ghettoized, and so now there's this massive right-wing backlash, and it's, and it's happening all, I mean this happened in [01:07:00] England, it's happening in France, and that right-wing, that, really it's a white nationalist, it's a white supremacist backlash, or, or, uh, our tribe versus your tribe.
I mean, there's different ways to characterize it that are more or less, uh, you know, evil or benign. But that's what's really driving this process was, you know, had, had Putin never destroyed Syria? Had that flood of refugees never arrived on the southern border? That's how, uh, Viktor Orban rose to power is, uh, in 2010.
His campaign promise, um, this was at that time there was just a, it was mostly Libyan refugees. This was, you know, after, uh, we killed, uh, Gaddafi. Um, uh, it was, it was, uh, you know, Oh my God, here come the refugees. Um, so, uh, you know, it's, it's a challenge and, and it's a game that Republicans in the United States are playing too.
Although Biden now has pretty much sealed up the southern border. Uh, you wouldn't know that from [01:08:00] watching Fox News, but that's pretty much what's going on. But I get it, Anthony. I don't have any easy answer other than identifying the problem, but thank you for the call.
What is behind the rise of the far-right in Europe Part 2 - Al Jazeera English - Air Date 6-11-24
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: Well, there are the elections in France, but there's also potentially another election that would be critical for the European Union, and that would be for Ursula von der Leyen's job. So, Katie, let me ask you, does she keep her job come July?
KATY BROWN: Um, I mean, it's hard to, hard to make predictions on that, but I think, um, she also in the build up to this, um, emphasized that she was open to, um, collaborating with far-right groups, uh, such as Giorgia Maloney, um, and Fratelli d'Italia. So, um, I think it will be very interesting to see how this progresses.
Um, But I think that there is a, uh, good chance that she could, um, and that that is also very worrying for the direction of travel within, uh, EU [01:09:00] politics.
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: When you talk about that direction of travel, Katie, how realistic do you see being the rise of a far-right supergroup, so to speak, within European politics?
KATY BROWN: Again, I think, um, We can sort of temper those kinds of ideas by, of course, being worried about the idea of a far-right group taking power. But really, what we've seen is the center, center right politics, normalizing far-right politics. And I think that that's where we need to focus our attention. The likelihood of a far-right super group is, is very limited, but the, um, the impacts of normalized far-right politics is very real for those at the sharp end.
So I think that's where we need to focus our attention, um, and, and try to combat, um, the creeping normalization of, um, these ideas and policies. [01:10:00]
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: When we talk about the normalization of these ideas, Janine, I'm going to ask you just very briefly to end here, to put this in context for us, in the global context.
When we see these trends in Europe, when you talk about the possibility of Donald Trump being re elected for a second time, where do you see the global trend in terms of populist politics going right now?
JANINE DI GIOVANNI: I think there's two things. I think first there's the media, which has had a massive effect on it.
The spread of disinformation, the rise of right-wing, um, shock jocks and, and really in a way, a kind of indoctrination of, of younger people into a way of thinking, which is either black or white. There's very little, you know, In some ways, uh, ability to interpret gray area. So I think that's really dangerous.
I also think there's just, there's, there is dissatisfaction with elite leaders, with what is seen as globalization throughout the world and, and basically wanting to see another path. [01:11:00] Unfortunately, the far-right has managed to establish themselves in, in some ways, friendlier, fresher faces. Uh, Jordan Bardella or even Marine Le Pen herself was really separated herself from her father's policies.
So this in a way, this rebranding of the new right and attracting younger voters, um, um, is, is I think something we have to take extremely seriously.
Clear Shift Toward the Far Right Anti-Immigrant Nationalists Gain Ground Across Europe Part 2 - Democracy Now! - Air Date 6-11-24
JUAN GONZALEZ: And, Mehreen Khan, I wanted to ask you, in terms of the vote, the rise especially of the far-right parties, to what degree the battle over immigration and migrants from the Global South, very much like the United States, where immigration has become a huge issue in the current presidential race — to what degree do you see the potential for these extreme-right parties to continue to grow as they try to mobilize their populations against the [01:12:00] migrants coming in?
MEHREEN KHAN: Well, I think there is a clear parallel with the United States. And I would say that parallel is that rather than being a contested area, migration is an area which there is huge amounts of consensus, from the left, the right and the far-right, that Europe is a continent that is closed, whose borders are closed. I think the push towards having anti-immigration policies or tough immigration policies that stop people, as you’ve already mentioned, from the Global South coming in — this also includes laws around refugees and asylum seekers — the European Union has probably decided since 2015 that it is a continent that does not want these people in its countries. So, in that sense, the far-right has won that argument, because it’s become a mainstream consensus.
I think the areas where the far-right has shown a bit more political innovation is moving onto territories like climate change, so creating a culture war around the green transition, saying that this is expensive for ordinary people, that — you know, even bordering sometimes on climate [01:13:00] denialism. And again, if we think about the United States, there’s another parallel, and I think the far-right parties in Europe really do take a lot of cues from Donald Trump’s Republican Party. And they’ve definitely moved into more of the social sphere, so speaking about Europe in civilizational terms, in racial terms and in religious terms. And this is where I think the far-right probably is finding more appeal among voters, a kind of emotional and identitarian appeal, which does include migration but is definitely broadening out from just being a one-issue subject for the far-right. They seem to be a movement, at least, that wants to encompass all areas of policy, from foreign policy, economic policy and also social and cultural policy.
JUAN GONZALEZ: And how do you assess the failures of the left parties in Europe to gain ground? I mean, there were some which did, but for the most part, they did not.
MEHREEN KHAN: It’s difficult to assess it on an aggregate level. But if we think about some small pockets, there have been surprise successes in the Netherlands, where [01:14:00] the Greens and the Socials — and the Social Democrats, the traditional left, actually teamed up, and they did well. They became the first party in the Netherlands, second to the far-right party of Geert Wilders.
But, generally, the left has struggled to find a message, and, in particular, an economic message for populations in Europe that have basically seen stagnant wage growth, a cost-of-living crisis, very high energy prices. And I think, crucially, they have also failed to get that sort of emotional appeal, something that the far-right seem to do far better, creating narratives around identity, around people’s place in their member states, in their countries, their relationships to their governments and to each other.
It’s worth noting that if the U.K. had been a member state in the European Union — this is the first time that Britain was not participating in the European election — the left would have done pretty well, because Labour probably would have had a stonking huge vote swing in their favor. And then we would probably be talking about a social democrat grouping in the European Parliament that was close to the biggest, the EPP. So, there are lots of variables involved.
But I think you’re right that, generally, the left has [01:15:00] failed to beat the far-right, because they’ve been outflanked on so many areas, including traditional strengths which they would have seen, like creating social and economic justice and providing a sense of inclusivity and diversity. These messages have either not been pushed far enough in countries like France or have been seen to be, you know, too beyond the pale for, I think, a population in many Western European countries where there is just a very general and long-term trend towards the right.
Will The Far Right Take Over France w Cole Stangler - Thom Hartmann Program - Air Date 6-13-24
THOM HARTMANN - HOST, THOM HARTMANN PROGRAM: Cole. Um, Macron has called for a snap election, or you know, a quick election, which has got a lot of people baffled and in the EU elections the right in France made some real substantial gains. What I'm guessing, and I wanted to reality check this with you, is that what most of this has to do with is the immigration of brown people and Muslims into France.
Am I, am I wrong?
COLE STANGLER: Well, first, thanks for having me. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's complex. I've, I've, I've, you know, spent a lot of time [01:16:00] trying to think about, but what, um, compelled people to vote for the national rally. I attended a couple of the, the big campaign rallies they had for the European elections with Jordan Bardella, who's their new candidate.
Who may well become prime minister and you know, it is true because they you know, I'll respond to the question But on the one hand they they have kind of made a more slightly more economically populous platform Which is to say that they've they've you know, they'll talk more about protecting the French welfare state They're against the kind of austerity that that they were Favoring all that being said Yeah, but you know all that being said to your point the one You Kind of constant that you will find throughout their discourse.
No matter what is that opposition to immigration? It's what gets the biggest applause lines at the rallies, um, you know, both rallies I attended and in talking on the Southwest in Paris that those are the biggest applause lines is when Jordan Bardella the candidate promises to strip welfare benefits for foreigners when he promises [01:17:00] to deport undocumented immigrants When he talked about restoring French identity You know, that's the kind of bread and butter that gets these voters motivated to, to, to go out and support the national rally.
So, yes, it's complex. A lot of these voters are from economically, you know, disadvantaged areas. But, but at the same time, you know, that's the kind of cement, um, that, that brings it all together is that opposition. Backlash to immigration.
THOM HARTMANN - HOST, THOM HARTMANN PROGRAM: Yeah Um, which you know is fundamentally racism I think we're seeing the same thing here in the united states with trump and his Obsession with the southern border and and s whole countries and all that kind of thing.
Um in the uh, Roughly two minutes we have left. How do you see this playing out in france?
COLE STANGLER: Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a very, uh, turbulent, frightening time right now. I mean, I don't think anybody expected, and I was talking with people really from across the political spectrum, from the Macronist to the left, no one expected Emmanuel Macron to dissolve parliament and hold these new legislative elections, [01:18:00] which are slated for the end of the month in early July.
No one expected this. And there's a real chance that the national rally could do very well, perhaps even be part of a governing coalition, if not win an outright majority. And install a far-right prime minister for the first time in france since the vici era so You know, it's or have a leader as far as it's supposed to be shared.
So it's a very frightening time um But I think, you know, maybe to end things on a slightly more optimistic note, um, the parties of the left have, uh, united after just 24 hours. Macron did not anticipate them coming together and they'll be presenting candidates, um, backed by this united left front. So it'll be very interesting to see, um, you know, frightening, turbulent, but also interesting to see if the left is able to actually present a coherent alternative to the far-right, where I think at this point it's fair to say Macron has failed to do so.
THOM HARTMANN - HOST, THOM HARTMANN PROGRAM: I understand Russia has been a big booster for Le Pen. To what extent is Russia interfering in the elections in France?
COLE STANGLER: You know, I think [01:19:00] there's lots of various documentation of Russian, you know, attempts to interfere in French politics. I will say there's a particular candidate who's quite high up on the national rallies of European elections, who now is a member of European Parliament, Thierry Mariani, who has very direct ties to.
Um, to the Russians, Russian government. Um, you know, he is gone and participated in, in, in meetings, um, to celebrate the Sham referendum in Crimea, in Crimea. And so there is, you know, it's interesting when National only has tried to downplay their support for, for Russia as opposed to the a FD in Germany.
There is a real difference there, but at the same time, you still do have this kind of ideological proximity and the links to Russia with the national rally.
.
SECTION C: THE PLAYBOOK AND MESSAGING OF THE FAR RIGHT
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: And finally section C: the playbook and messaging of the far-right.
Is Italy's government allowing the past to live on -BBC News - Air Date 6-4-24
NARRATOR: But Meloni's supporters say the issue is with the way in which anti fascists have protested over the years, both in clashes with the other side and with police.
NICOLA PROCACCINI: Being anti fascist, During the [01:20:00] fascism was a very brave act, a brave of freedom, a brave for democracy. But after the falling of the fascism, being anti fascist means violence, means a lot of young students killed.
This is why she's very clear. I always condemned the fascism, every day of my life. But, please, don't tell me to share what the anti fascists, uh, did
NARRATOR: it after the falling of fascism. If somebody looks from outside and they see Italy in 2024, with hundreds of people in the main, second city of Italy, doing, putting their fascist salutes,
NICOLA PROCACCINI: How do you think that looks?
You are fascist if you want to reintroduce the fascism in your country, not if you make the fascism salute that [01:21:00] is the Roman salute. We condemn the fascism, but more than this, it's an obsession.
NARRATOR: And so one side of Italy sees fascism and its threat as a ghost haunting the present, the other as a fantasy whipped up by the left. Across Italy, the past, politically speaking, lives on. Historical battles still part of the present. We've come to Bologna, which has always been at the centre of the fight against fascism.
Here are the names and faces of the partisans that died defending this city from the fascists in the 1940s. But then it went on to 1980 with Italy's worst terror attack. Bombings at the train station here in Bologna. by neo fascists that killed 85 people. And so fascism and anti fascism have always been at the heart of this city's, this country's, [01:22:00] political lexicon.
INTERVIEWEE: We're seeing things, uh, in these recent years that are very similar to what happened at the beginning of the regime and at the beginning of fascism a century ago. Attacks on freedom of press, censorship, um, freedom for press. the LGBTQI community, um, attacks on the liberty and freedom of women, uh, to determine what they can do on their own body.
NARRATOR: So do you feel that the fight, the anti fascism fight, is still relevant today?
INTERVIEWEE: Definitely. I definitely believe it's very relevant and I also see, um, again to strike a parallel the fact that the far-right, not only in Italy but all over the world, is sort of trying to Uh, find a scapegoat for people's difficulties in everyday lives by attacking the stranger, the person who comes from abroad, the migrant.
Uh, it's, it's something similar again to what was [01:23:00] done a century ago. Germany in some ways sort of had to address the past because there was victors and, and those who had lost the war. Uh, Italy's role was a little more ambiguous, right? So first with Hitler and then, Surrendered and there's much to be said about really grappling with that, uh, legacy.
NARRATOR: History is weaponized in a country still not at peace with its past. Sugarcoating the bitter parts of collective memory. Nostalgia given free reign.
PARTY REP: My name is Roberto Fiore and I am the National Secretary of Forza Nuova. I define myself as someone who really, uh, who has certainly got, uh, uh, some ideas and some inspiration by a certain part of fascism. Are you a fascist? If you ask me like that, I probably would say, [01:24:00] uh, yes, but I have to complete the term, um, and say I'm a revolutionary.
But are you denying that, that, that, that the fascist regime was violent and criminal?
NARRATOR: If you ask me like that, I probably would say, uh, yes, but I have to complete the term, um, and say I'm a revolutionary.
PARTY REP: Yes, absolutely, at night.
NARRATOR: Mussolini signed the racial laws. I mean, he deported, this was a regime that deported Jews to death camps, that outlawed the opposition, that put political opponents in, in, in internment camps.
Are you honestly saying that you
MARK LOWEN - REPORTER, BBC NEWS: supported those, you support those measures? The internment camps are things that happened
PARTY REP: with the war. The Americans did it, the Germans did it, the Italians did it, and so on.
NARRATOR: Talking about people who were being, who were gassed, who were shot, who were exterminated. For their religion.
PARTY REP: Fascist has never been accused of this. I'm talking about fascist as a regime. Mussolini, any All minister has never been tried for
MARK LOWEN - REPORTER, BBC NEWS: this. Do you believe that this government in power in Italy is occupying your political space? No. I believe [01:25:00] that they are
PARTY REP: freeing a lot of the political space that we're going to take.
Why? One of the main point is immigration. We have always been against immigration. Meloni has always been against immigration, sometimes with our same tone and strength. Now immigrants Last year, this year, have increased the number of 50%. Where do you think Italian people are going to go after this betrayal of, um,
MARK LOWEN - REPORTER, BBC NEWS: uh, original positions?
Your movement, or a movement like yours, would not exist and has been
NARRATOR: banned in Greece, for example, Golden Dawn, in Germany, that would never exist. You would never be able to use the symbols and the slogans that your party uses in a country like Germany. Why is that the case?
PARTY REP: Because Germany's got a bigger problem.
NARRATOR: You think Germany's got the problem rather than Italy?
PARTY REP: Yes, because freedom is freedom. [01:26:00]
NARRATOR: Neither victor nor vanquished, Italy memorialises in a way others do not the name, architecture and gestures of the regime allowed to live on.
NICOLA PROCACCINI: What do you think? We have to destroy everything. This is the, the cancel culture that we don't, uh, we don't share.
NARRATOR: The question is, does the ideology itself survive?
PARTY REP: I would say there is a silent majority that would say yes, yes, yes on a lot of our ideas.
NARRATOR: And is Italy, the laboratory of fascism, once again a political testing room?
INTERVIEWEE: What should be seen as, as a crime, as apology of fascism, is actually again downplayed as.
Oh no, it's just nostalgic. It's a tribute.
NARRATOR: The worry here is not that Italy's democracy, per se, is under threat, but that a governing party, which has not severed its historical roots, still winks to that support base [01:27:00] and that speech notions, even policies once banished are increasingly normalized
Does the economy matter to the far right Part 2 - Business Beyond - Air Date 5-31-24
DW NEWS REPORTER: One party whose anti EU position has not softened much is Germany's Alternative für Deutschland, or the AFD, currently the second most popular party in the country going by opinion polls.
That party was founded in 2013, in response to the Eurozone crisis. Understandably, it has fiercely Euro skeptic roots, which it has held on to, while it's also developing a broader, nationalistic, anti immigration philosophy.
LIANA FIX: They are still explicitly radicalizing and have sort of not toned down the language, both towards the European Union.
DW NEWS REPORTER: The AFD still regularly touts the prospect of a referendum on Germany's EU membership. It also wants the country to leave the Euro currency area. And those positions haven't harmed the party's popularity. Since July 2022, support for the AFD in [01:28:00] nationwide opinion polls more than doubled to a high of 22 percent in January 2024.
That's come down by a few points since, but the party is currently the second most popular in Germany. But the AFD is beset by controversy. They are officially designated as a suspected extremist organization. This year, there have been huge protests calling for them to be banned. One of the main reasons.
was a secret meeting the party was involved in last November with several right-wing extremists. Among the reported topics, a plan for the mass deportation of foreigners and even German citizens with a foreign background. The controversies have even led to the AFD being ostracized by others on the European far-right.
They were recently kicked out of the European Parliament grouping for far-right parties due to comments made by one of their leading candidates for that parliament, which appeared to play down Nazi war [01:29:00] crimes.
LIANA FIX: The AFD is becoming ever more radicalized, whereas other far-right parties in Europe are trying to become more mainstream and therefore to appeal to more voters.
We asked
DW NEWS REPORTER: the AFD for an interview about their economic policies, and while the party did offer us the chance to speak with one of their MEPs, They wanted to approve any answers we used after the interview. When we instead sent a list of questions to the party press office, a spokesperson responded, We just don't feel comfortable talking to DW.
The party lists many of its key economic policies on its website. Among their most prominent positions, reduce VAT and don't increase taxes, overhaul the German tax system, and leave the Eurozone. The party's parliamentary working group on the economy says the following, The AFD parliamentary group stands for the social market economy.
It is the basis of German prosperity and thus our social cohesion. We see it as our task to make the social market economy [01:30:00] Future proof critics say their economic policies would not benefit their voters,
LIANA FIX: their policies actually translated, would mean that, um, the witch will get richer and the poor will get poor.
And that's quite surprising that um, although officials of policies and declarations would actually not favor those who feel, um, left behind by the economy, they sort of. Through other topics like immigration and so on, they still appeal to those voters who don't seem to take a close look at what exactly those economic policies,
DW NEWS REPORTER: policies, policies will lead to.
And parties like the AFD have a big problem when it comes to the economy. By and large, business says it doesn't want them in power. A recent survey from the German Economic Institute, which polled around 900 companies, found that 75 percent of business executives in Germany are openly opposed to the party.
Ramona Meinzer is one [01:31:00] such business owner who sees the AFD as a direct threat to Germany's economic prosperity. She's the owner and managing director of Aumuller, a medium sized manufacturing enterprise in the southern state of Bavaria.
ROMONA MEINZER: If there's a party that, that, for example, like the IFD says, okay, we should get out of the European Union or the Euro is a bad idea.
It would really, really harm my business on that one side, but on the other side also, as I'm dependent on the international markets, like for selling my products, but also for bringing international, or workers with international background to Germany, you have, or we have to make sure that this wonderful country is, is really, is, is pictured in the right way also abroad.
DW NEWS REPORTER: She also thinks the AFD's rhetoric on migrants makes Germany a less appealing place for people from abroad to come and work in. A problem, given Germany's much publicized labor shortages.
ROMONA MEINZER: It's getting [01:32:00] harder and harder to really find, uh, yeah, enough people to, to be able to, to keep growing, which at the end of the day is so important for my business.
And yeah, so it's, it's unbelievably important that, that we, we show Germany to, to other countries and people in other countries as the wonderful. country that it is. So, and, and to show them that, that they're welcome here and, and to make sure that we integrate them and, and that they have a chance to really build their future in this, this country.
DW NEWS REPORTER: far-right parties have faced resistance from business elsewhere, but in the case of Meloni in Italy and Orban in Hungary, they have also found ways to work with business and business has found ways to work with them.
PHILLIP RATHGEB: So there is an ambiguous relationship with business. On the one hand, Business may well side with the radical right when it comes to taxation and when it comes to welfare.
If we look, uh, [01:33:00] to Hungary, um, what Orban did was to introduce a flat tax. Um, De Lega wants to introduce a flat tax. They can't for fiscal reasons. Um, Meloni wants to, uh, lower taxes and lower also minimum income scheme, um, in the interest of business.
DW NEWS REPORTER: Yet, internationally oriented companies are always likely to have a problem with far-right movements.
As the a FD are finding out,
PHILLIP RATHGEB: they feel uneasy about the rise of the radical, right? In the sense that what these parties do and, and, and Trump is perhaps the key example in this regard is to disrupt free trade by, um, stimulating a turn towards economic protectionism and economic nationalism, which is not in the interest of export-oriented companies.
DW NEWS REPORTER: The rise of the far-right in Europe has raised the specter of the 1920s and 1930s when economic crises such as unemployment. And hyperinflation helped bring in fascist rule. But there are [01:34:00] two key differences between the economies of the 1920s and the 2020s, employment and welfare.
LIANA FIX: While inflation is still high, surprisingly, we have rather A labor problem in Europe, so unemployment is very low, um, and companies are really searching for, uh, for, for, for labor.
So that is a big difference here. Um, the other example of the other difference to that historical period is that sort of social welfare structures in Europe are very strong. Um, and there was a big pandemic support package that tried to make sure both for companies, but also for individual citizens that tried to make sure To prevent exactly this sort of sliding down into unemployment, sliding down into economic crisis, and then to radicalization.
DW NEWS REPORTER: However, if an economic crisis were to emerge that threatened employment and the capacity of states to provide welfare, far-right parties are well placed to capitalize.
LIANA FIX: [01:35:00] That's obviously a nightmare that is haunting many politicians today, that an economic crisis or even an economic downturn, not as big as the economic crisis in 1929, could repeat itself and could lead to the rise of, um, right-wing parties in Europe.
What is behind the rise of the far-right in Europe Part 3 - Al Jazeera English - Air Date 6-11-24
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: I'm wondering, Janine, in terms of impact on broader European policy too, just how much unity there is Within the far-right because broadly they they seem to campaign these individual far-right parties are campaigning heavily on national issues So at the european level you mentioned concerns about um the the global outlook here in terms of what might happen Um in ukraine and also i'm i'm wondering about in terms of global development and development assistance to the global south Where do you see those conversations going now as we've seen more seats for the for the far-right in at the european level?
You
JANINE DI GIOVANNI: So it's interesting. I just came back from Ukraine yesterday. Um, it, but one thing to keep in mind as [01:36:00] well is that, you know, far-right, traditionally they focus on national issues completely. So are they going to be able to put together foreign policy, um, or are they actually going to be able to work together because their whole agenda is really about working for their own country, their own identity.
So it will be interesting to see if they actually can have a coordinated effort on policy or on other broader things such as trade. Um, but going back to how they might envision their foreign policy. So we know on Ukraine, it's very split by the far-right. The AFD in Germany, of course, is very pro Russia, um, as is the PIS party in Poland.
In Italy, Giorgia Maloney, Has been very pro Ukrainian, um, but there are other parties in Italy, which are not. Hungary, of course, led by Orban, is extremely pro Putin. Um, now Ukraine right now, and having just gotten back, is in a very vulnerable position. They were waiting for a long time for the bill [01:37:00] to go through Congress, U.
S. Congress, to get them more ammunition. And more aid. Um, the, on the front lines, they're really struggling. Um, people have gone through, this is the third year of war. So people are really enduring a kind of deep psychological fatigue, as well as, you know, even in Kiev air raids at night, which keep people awake and keep them always anxious.
So it's very important to see if the, if the really, I felt extraordinary European consensus that was behind Ukraine until now will hold, um, traditionally, you know, the far-right, it is something that's beyond their, their borders. So therefore they don't have the same kind of, um, impact there. As for, As for Israel and the war in Gaza, the far-right traditionally has backed Netanyahu.
So, um, that again is troubling, as is what they might do if Trump does get in, who has said basically [01:38:00] he'll annex the West Bank and, um, fully support, let, give Netanyahu an even more green light to do whatever he wants.
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: I'm interested in what appears to have been a shift within the far-right itself in Europe.
Because we're now talking about, about trying to form some kind of coherent policy, be it domestic, well, European wide or, or foreign. But previously, it seemed to be much of the conversation was actually driven by wanting to break away from Europe, and that narrative has changed. So, Katie, let me bring you in on this.
I'm wondering how you see this, this newfound power by the far-right being manifested in the bloc going forward.
KATY BROWN: Well, I think there's an interesting contradiction a lot of the time in far-right politics towards Europe. So, um, as you mentioned, there's, uh, often a kind of Euro skeptic view of the European Parliament.
Um, But they also quite often rely on what [01:39:00] Marta Lorimer calls using Europe as a, as an ideological resource. So they are also kind of, um, feeding into ideas of European identity. So, um, I feel like that is where they could, um, you know, sort of expand their nationalist politics to this European level. I did some research on far-right discourse around, um, Turkish accession, um, and they relied heavily on this idea of European white identity, uh, pushing against, um, the accession of Turkey on that basis.
So, I think that these These nationalist discourses and racist discourses, um, are often then translated onto this European level too. Um, so that's where they could, um, they could, um, kind of find more common ground between their different nationalist policies.
NASTASYA TAY - PRESENTER, AL JAZERA: Well, Janine, let me ask you then what you think this all [01:40:00] means for the debate that's ongoing about EU enlargement.
JANINE DI GIOVANNI: So mainly I'm thinking about Ukraine, um, because coming, working so closely in Ukraine, working inside Ukraine, my friends, my colleagues want to join Europe. They feel they deserve to join Europe. They believe that they have been fighting a war for Europe. They don't see fighting. I mean, of course they're fighting for their country, but they also see themselves as holding the last line of democracy against Putin, who does want to, who was.
antagonized by the expansion of NATO, but also has made it very clear of what he wants. So Ukraine has been waiting patiently to join the EU. And if the far-right does get in, um, it's pretty doubtful they will, or that it would take a, an extended period of time. And that would be deeply disappointing, especially for the Ukrainians that really have been losing their lives, suffering [01:41:00] terribly.
Um, and in many ways, what they see as fighting, fighting a war to keep democracy in Europe.
Credits
JAY TOMLINSON - HOST, BEST OF THE LEFT: That's going to be it for today. As always keep the comments coming in. I would love to hear your thoughts or questions about today's topic or anything else. You can leave a voicemail or send us a text at 202-999-3991, or simply email me to [email protected]. The additional sections of the show included clips from DW News, Pod Save the World, The Thom Hartmann :Program, Democracy Now!, Al Jazeera, BBC News, and Business Beyond. Further details are in the show notes.
Thanks everyone for listening. Thanks to Deon Clark and Erin Clayton for their research work for the show and participation in our bonus episodes. Thanks to our Transcriptionist Quartet, Ken, Brian, Ben, and Andrew, for their volunteer work helping put our transcripts together. Thanks to Amanda Hoffman for all of her work behind the scenes and her bonus show co-hosting. And thanks to those who already support the show by becoming a member or purchasing gift memberships. You can [01:42:00] join them by signing up today at bestoftheleft.com/support, through our Patreon page, or from right inside the Apple podcast app. Membership is how you get instant access to our incredibly good and often funny weekly bonus episodes, in addition to there being no ads and chapter markers in all of our regular episodes, all through your regular podcast player. You'll find that link in the show notes, along with a link to join our Discord community, where you can also continue the discussion.
So, coming to from far outside the conventional wisdom of Washington DC, my name is Jay, and this has been the Best of the Left podcast, coming to twice weekly, thanks entirely to the members and donors to the show, from bestoftheleft.com
