Climate change deniers claim to just be interpreting the data differently too, that doesn’t mean I need to respect their opinion or give them equal weight to the 98% of scholars who have come to a basic consensus. Denying the existence of systemic racism in America is really not much different. I never thought you were reading the “wrong things”, based on your opinions I assumed you hadn’t read anything and we’re just making shit up as you went based on what felt right to you.

For future reference, it’s no one’s job to educate you but your own. Asking me to write you a summary of a book for you is the single most petulantly entitled request I’ve ever received. Do some reading and imagine the possibility that scholars who have studied this issue for decades might know more than you.

I appreciate the apology for wasting my time though.

You haven’t been addressing a single one of my arguments here, and dismiss all of them simply by insisting that I am not “educated” enough, or have been reading the “wrong” materials. And even if I did read the “right” ones, I doubt we could still have a discussion because if I didn’t come to 100% agreement with your views, you would find some other way to shift the goalposts and say that I “just don’t get it”. This isn’t going to get anywhere. Sorry for wasting both of our time. Carry on with your clip shows.

Because no one has ever looked at the same data and drawn different conclusions from it, right?

Your opinion on remedies is of absolutely no interest to me. Why would anyone think you have anything valuable to add to a discussion of solutions when your analysis of the problem is overflowing with embarrassing levels of ignorance? Read more, talk less, that’s how you get smarter.

Jim Crow or not, I don’t think BLM’s actions are serving to remedy any of these problems, as PJ Watson summarizes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJHvppVEBTY

If you want a summary of The new Jim Crow then I’m sure one already exists somewhere on the internet.

Very interesting findings there, Schawn, and I’m inclined to agree. I’ve always thought that the best way to deal with an issue was to confront it directly and drag it out into the open, but too many people these days seem to want to ignore it and hope it will go away on its own, somehow.

I’ve also seen the aspect of becoming an exception to a person’s prejudice. At least when their arguments aren’t immediately dismissed right off the bat simply for being a part of the outgroup. I’ve also seen people within a prejudiced person’s own group advocating for the outgroup being dismissed as not being a “true” member of their group, such as a woman advocating for men’s rights not being the “right” kind of woman. This may be anecdotal, but I wouldn’t doubt there’s more to this, seeing how deep tribalism runs within human instinct.

I forgot to include the full references for the studies I cited in the comment I made below. Here they are:

Ashburn-Nardo, L., Morris, K. A., & Goodwin, S. A. (2008). The confronting prejudice responses (CPR) model: Applying CPR in organizations. Academy of Management Learning & Education, 7(3), 332-342.

Blanchard, F. A., Crandall, C. S., Brigham, J. C., & Vaughn, L. A. (1994). Condemning and condoning racism: A social context apraoch to interracial settings. Journal of Applied Psychology, 79(6), 993-997. Czopp, Alexander M.; Monteith, Margo J.; Mark, Aimee Y. (2006). Standing up for change: Reducing bias through interpersonal confrontation. Journal of Personality & Social Psychology , May 2006, Vol. 90 Issue 5, p784-803.

Focella, E. S., Bean, M. G., & Stone, J. (2015). Confrontation and beyond: Examining a stigmatized target’s use of a prejudice reduction strategy. Social and Personality Psychology Compas, 9(2), 100-115.

Gervais, Sarah J.; Hillard, Amy L.; Vescio, Theresa K. (2010). Confronting Sexism: The Role of Relationship Orientation and Gender. Sex Roles , October, Vol. 63 Issue 7/8, p463-474.

I have been long frustrated by the fact that being a liberal White person has not always translated into my speaking up when faced with the opportunities to challenge prejudice or discrimination. Recently I have had the opportunity to really investigate why this might be. What I found is that my women’s studies and diversity trainings and multiculturalism classes have failed to provide me with all the tools that are needed to confront prejudice and discrimination. The Confronting Prejudice Responses (CPR) Model proposed by Ashburn-Nardo, Morris, and Goodwin (2008) suggests there are five steps (detection, determination, responsibility, plan, and act) between a discriminatory event and confrontation. Most trainings and classes do an excellent job addressing the first three but fail to teach the skills needed to know what to say and to actually say it (the last two steps). There is also a second issue that liberal White people don’t know and need to know: Why it is important for White people to speak up. First, it is effective! The 2006 study by Czopp, Monteith, & Mark found that confronting bias resulted in decreased bias. Second, confronting prejudice and discrimination decreases prejudice in those who witness the confrontation (Blanchard, Crandall, Brigham, & Vaughn, 1994). Third, that people who are not the target of the discrimination are more effective at challenging that discrimination than individuals who are the target. In fact, the meta-analysis (a study of multiple research studies) by Focella, Bean, and Stone (2015) found that even when target individuals are effective with their arguments the confronted individual’s view is only changed towards that particular individual and not the whole target group. In other words a Black person confronting racism will, at best, become the exception to the rule for the prejudice individual. Fourth, because we experience psychological benefits when we confront (Gervais, Hillard, & Vescio, 2010), in other words we feel good when we act in accordance with our beliefs. I have come to believe that it is vital for liberal White people to learn the missing skills and to practice using those skills. We did not know how to drive in rush hour traffic the first time we sat behind the steering wheel of a car. We learned in an empty lot or a field or even on back country roads with a teacher. Confronting prejudice or discrimination can feel a lot like driving in big city rush hour traffic – It is something we are very capable of doing, particularly once we build the skills.

As much as I hate to think of different societal groups being in competition (“whites vs. blacks”, “men vs. women”, “straights vs. gays”, etc.) the fact that America and most of the First World is primarily a capitalist society makes it one. History has given some of these groups a head-start, but in recent times we have done all we could to level the playing field, have we not? If there are any specific rights that whites have that blacks do not, I would be all for giving it to them, and would love to see more charities helping impoverished black communities. I like capitalism insofar as it is the closest system we have to a meritocracy (wherein people are rewarded for efforts and accomplishments), though it is far from a perfect one, with many unscrupulous people at the top using their influence to bend the rules unfairly. If the black community is a victim of anything, it would be the cutthroat nature of the game of capitalism.

If you’re so well-informed about it, Jay, I’m quite sure that you could sum up the entire thing for me very clearly and succinctly, and you would want to do so in the first place if you believe that it is truly that important.

Peter, as long as you continue to fail to understand and acknowledge the existence of structural racism and other structural forms of oppression you will continue fail to understand the movements against those systems. I recommend reading The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander before making your next comment on the subject.

A War Veteran returns home, he is miss treated by local law enforcement, possible PTSD. He ends up getting into a fire fight with local law enforcement. He ends up killing multiple cops…. I am of course talking about John Rambo and the Plot of First Blood.

The issue is not about blacks vs. whites, it’s about cops vs. criminals. Crime happens more often in poor neighborhoods out of desperation, and a lot of these neighborhoods just so happen to have significant black populations, so it would follow that many black men in these areas would get in trouble with the law out of sheer statistical probability. If you want to treat it as a race-based thing, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; if you believe that all cops have it out for you merely because of the color of your skin, you’ll start treating officers with contempt rather than respect, and your misbehavior will be more likely to escalate a situation involving them into a tragedy. I doubt as many cops would be afraid for their lives around black men if more of them treated them with respect. If they search you as a suspect simply because they profiled you as one, and you politely comply, you won’t have anything to be ashamed of; they will.

If nothing else, I would hope it would be common sense not to do anything to startle or frighten a person armed with a lethal weapon, whose job gives them reasonable cause to believe their life could be in danger at any moment on the beat.

Hands Up United’s certainly misleading with its own article title. It’s certainly not legal to murder anyone, last I checked, and all the killers in question have been brought to justice and tried for their crimes.

And despite the fact that blacks are statistically hundreds of times more likely to be killed by other blacks than by police (and never mind the fact that many of the victims of cop killings had been uncooperative, and police are trained to respond as if lives are in danger when that happens; if you don’t want to be shot by a cop, just comply with their orders), we still make a big deal out of the few times it does happen, because it paints a convenient narrative of oppression. Oppression that is either greatly exaggerated or doesn’t exist in the first place.

Nobody alive today ever said that black lives didn’t matter to begin with. It would seem that the BLM movement are a group of rebels without a cause or a clue, trying to follow in their parents’ footsteps in fighting for a civil rights movement despite already having one. Stop living in the past, you have all the same rights as everyone else, as far as I know, and if you can show me otherwise, I would love to know about it, and abolish all the laws that favor one race or another for the sake of fairness. The only thing that BLM has ever accomplished thus far is the encouragement of more violence and cop killers. I don’t know what their goal is, but they can only be said to be doing well if they were aiming to start a race war.